korsriddare | In which Kors talks about Seth

So, I think I have ran this through with some of you, but here is a consistent effort in showing why I think Seth is younger than both Forde and Kyle. And also hopefully you guys can offer some opinion as well, since I may be letting my biasness for him cloud my deductions.

So, here is my thought process, though not written in a proper argument form.

1. Forde and Kyle are probably the same age.

Forde: Ha ha ha ha. Of course not. But I bet you're still a ladies' man, huh?
I know you--you're a perfect gentlemen, always nice to the ladies. I remember
when you were little, you were always the first to help when you saw a little
girl crying. You would go running up to lend a hand. I still remember how
impressed I was that you would do that. It was cool. 
- Forde/Kyle C 

Forde: Oh, you're one to talk. When you were a baby, you were planning out
strategies to take over the nursery. You were stuck up then, and stuck up now.
And STILL the ladies liked you! 
- Forde/Kyle C

2. Kyle was probably already a knight ten years ago thanks to the mission he was sent on, and thus probably so was Forde a knight.

Syrene: We met once, about ten years ago or so. You may have forgotten.
Kyle: Ten years ago... Wait, you're... THAT Syrene!?
- Kyle/Syrene C

Kyle: I'm sorry about that, Syrene. I had no idea... I was on a special
mission to deliver a letter to King Hayden. I didn't have any time for
sightseeing, like I'd said.
- Kyle/Syrene C
3. Ten years ago, Seth was probably still a squire. 
Seth: When I was just a squire, there was one knight whom I admired above all
others. His skill with sword and spear was legendary. He was truly peerless.
We squires learned the meaning of chivalry watching him serve the king.
Ten years back, we received word that an infamous assassin was hiding in
Renais... - Seth/Franz A

4. A squire is probably younger than a knight.

5. Therefore, probably, Seth is younger than both Forde and Kyle.

Now, quite a bit of assumptions here. If Seth is indeed younger than them, the question then becomes how young? And what is his age? If we go by the FE tendency to not have young-ish looking characters being too old, we can set an upper limit of Forde and Kyle's age at... 28~30? Since it is not too unreasonable to say that they attain knighthood at 18~20. It is a probable upper limit, so they could be younger for all we know.

Considering the age of historic squires, they go from page to squires at about 13~14. After a few years, if they prove themselves somewhat, then they get knighted. So, if we take Kyle's mission then to be when he was still a very green knight, he was likely...18, or maybe even 17, and Seth to be a very senior squire, then his age would be...15~16, even 17? So the minimal age difference would be around 2 years. On the other hand, if we assume Kyle to be relatively experienced by then (a special mission, which either means an important courier message, or that just a mission to test out their newest knight), and Seth to be a new squire, we are looking at an age difference of 5~6, even 7, if you feel generous with either of their age.

My own head canon puts Kyle/Forde at 28, and Seth at 23~24.

Now that is over, I can ramble a bit about why I find Seth to be quite intriguing. At the start of FE8 it was mentioned that there was peace for the past 800 years or so. So, no general warfare, maybe border skirmishes when you have some bad blood. But for the current batch, everyone seem to get along before good old Demon King subjugated Lyon. In times of war, people get promoted fast because of casualty. In times of relative peace, not so much. So within 10 years of being a squire, he went from Squire Seth to General Seth, leader of the Knights of Renais.

In the meanwhile, he overtook people like Forde, Kyle, Orson, and the other knights. Not to mention, he also earned himself the name of the "Silver Knight" before the war even started. I think in FE8, only Marisa shares the same priviledge, being known as the Crimson Flash for her exploits as a mercenary. Not only that, he seems to be ~~worshipped~~ respected not only by fellow knights, but also by people from other nations.

Franz: Oh, so sorry... I appreciate your praise, sir.
I mean, you're General Seth, the Silver Knight. You're my hero.  Seth: Hahaha... No more flattery, Franz. Please.

Franz: But, General, it's true! Do you remember when Grado's forces overran
Castle Renais? Despite grave injuries, you outcharged the enemy, broke their
lines, and escaped. And then, you delivered the princess, on your own,
to Frelia safety. If I were you, I doubt I could have survived such a
challenge... You are the only person I know who can make impossible feats
possible.
-Seth/Franz B

Cormag: I know you. Of course I know you. You're General Seth, the Silver
Knight.  Cormag: If the legendary Silver Knight knows my name, I can't be doing too
bad, huh?
- Both from Seth/Cormag C

Forde: Never mind. Not important. Anyway, I'm shocked. SHOCKED. Yeah,
if you need a role model, look to General Seth.
-Forde/Franz A
Yeap, legendary. Thus why I find him so intriguing, and love to explore how he became what we see in FE8. And I think I still have things to say, but I shall stop my ramble here. ^^;

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

hooves.livejournal.com

It's about time you posted a long journal entry. =D

In the meanwhile, he overtook people like Forde, Kyle, Orson, and the other knights. Not to mention, he also earned himself the name of the "Silver Knight" before the war even started.

I think you mean "overlooked" people like Forde, Kyle, Orson, et cetera. Which now that you mention it... It makes me wonder if he might have made some internal enemies by doing that. I know that if I were a fellow knight (or had been one much longer than Seth), and Seth was promoted before me? I'd be pretty annoyed with it, maybe even a little bitter. Of course, it depends on the person and their attitude, but some people get downright angry when they're overlooked for a promotion- especially if they actually did something that deserves promoting. :|

Anyway, this was fun to read. Seth is a well-known character, which makes things even more interesting in regards to Eirika. It's certainly not as if their love is impossible... (I'm going with, in regards to discussions we've (others and I) had about Kent, that what makes his relationship with Lyn an "impossible" one is that he's likely to just never say anything and therefore get passed by because he has a tendency to just kind of...blend in and not stick out like so many other men. This isn't the only reason, but one of them.) Meanwhile, Seth is a big bad general, well-respected by not only Renais, but by (it seems) knights and men from other countries, too. Which is fascinating, in my opinion.

He must know that he and Eirika could get together with relative ease- especially when Ephraim becomes king. Because Ephraim likes and respects Seth, too. (And wants Eirika to be happy, let's not forget that, too.)

It makes me curious as to why Seth might think he and Eirika should not fraternize. (Or that she shouldn't with her "servants".) Maybe he's just trying to protect her (ie: in the event that someone/he dies, he wouldn't want her to end up even more broken-hearted than usual), or if there's a lot more to it. Maybe he feels that she could personally do better. (She is a princess, and he is a knight. A very important, well-to-do knight, but a knight nonetheless. It's not as if he has amazing royalty in his bloodline or anything.)

...I'll shut up, hahaha. =D

From:

korsriddare.livejournal.com

I do mean overtook. That is, he arrived on the scene later than them, but eventually surpassed them.

I guess there might be some resentment, if you have Seth fight Orson. Though it might have been just some insane ramblings by then. At the same time though, him being known as the Silver Knight must be quite a deed indeed. And from the way I see it, people like Forde/Kyle/Franz do not resent him for that.

And the last part could just be his unfortunate hold on to chivalry, in that royalty are supposed to marry other royalty. Of course, their ending shows that everyone gave their blessings, haha.

From:

planetes.livejournal.com

How did I know you were going to mention Marisa somewhere in this entry. Ohoho

Yeah, I don't know what to say, but I wanted to comment. So there P:

From:

korsriddare.livejournal.com

Did you CTRL-F to search for it? :p

From:

planetes.livejournal.com

Nah, but I really have an eye for these things.

From:

shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com

Huh. I'd actually always just assumed Forde/Kyle were younger (with the ages reversed, i.e. Forde/Kyle = ~23 and Seth = ~27-28, but you make some very good points here. Not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but could it be possible that Kyle's "special mission" was in fact just a special mission as a squire? I mean, it *is* just letter delivery... (Though even in that case their ages are much closer than I thought -- which actually makes sense, as Seth and Cormag also seem closer in age now that I think about it, and Cormag's probably only in his early twenties.) Let me think about this some more.

But wow, ten years -- that's a really fast jump from squire to general, and one with a reputation! I haven't paid as much attention to FE8 details as I have FE6/7, so I never noticed that, or if I did I forgot. And actually this is something I was trying to figure out with Percival and the other generals too -- for such important figures, both he and Cecilia are REALLY YOUNG. (We get more of an explanation regarding Cecilia, of course, but...) I think I more or less worked things out by making stuff up. XD

But the "800 years of peace" thing is something that always did bother me -- 800 years is a REALLY LONG TIME. And if that were the case, I don't think Jehanna could have developed or sustained such an extensive mercenary culture for that long. (IIRC FE7 has similar wording at some point, only it's 900 years of peace or something -- and that I buy even less, because Elibe is clearly even less "at peace" of a world than Magvel, which is actually fairly balanced until the Demon King comes along.) Sooooo I don't know. Obviously they're just trying to emphasize that this is a Big Deal in both cases, but it really doesn't make sense if you actually think about it. XD

Though didn't Garcia get touted as a hero or something? (And wasn't it Gerik that he faced off against at one point?) Which I think means that there must have been some larger scale conflict within the last few decades, at least, and maybe is the impetus for Grado/Renais to sign the treaty* prior to game start? Though that still doesn't account for Seth's swift rise in ranks.

* Have you seen that Sacred Stones comic that supposedly came with the game, btw? It's only 3 pages or so, and let me dig it out since it's been a while since I read it.... Okay, 5 pages, and it doesn't actually say anything all that interesting. I just remembered because Seth was the only recognizable character from Renais (other than Fado) present at the treaty signing as depicted, and anyway I'm not sure how "canon" it is, as it's meant more as a promotional teaser and the art/scenario is not from the "original" creators. But it does talk a little about Grado/Renais relations, mentioning "generations of peace"... sooo eh, still don't know.

I'll have to go look at the supports again later today.

From:

korsriddare.livejournal.com

Honestly, I have thought about that, but the more I read into Kyle and Syrene's support, they seem to be full-fledged knights then, already. Her flying in to aid him in taking out a group of bandits harassing some merchant. And even as a letter delivery, it is a message from a royal to another, I would expect a proper courier, or in this case, a knight to show at least some formalism and respect.

And, amongst the in-game/post-ending pictures we see rolling in the credits, there is that scene where Seth was going to spar with Forde and Kyle, seemingly together. And, Forde talked to Kyle winning a swordsmanship competition before, with Kyle coming in second. Now, if Seth was of enough age to participate, I do not see them being the top two. Admittedly, he could be too old, but if he was a squire when Kyle was too, they are not too far in age. Also, there could be argument made for Seth not joining because he did not want to, or that he was not that good in the past.

Yeah, ten years. He must have impressed someone very much somehow.

That is also the reason why I like Percival, I guess. And characters like that. Not all heroes need to grow up suddenly in times of conflicts. I like some of them already relatively equipped to handle it right from the start.

I guess it might be a little misleading. Peace could be 'unsanctioned skirmishes', or total peace. I think it is the former. And of course, we have Carcino right there. Not that stable, oppportunity for mercenaries. And perhaps most of Jehanna's military might comes from its mercenaries?

Well, the other side could imply many things... rebellious noble, baron robbers or something. And yeah, that does not account for his swift rise in ranks. And the treaty signed maybe a stronger sign of friendship between the two during recent years, where else in the past it was more of a case of unofficial "let's not fight each other" stance. And what makes the invasion of Renais so unexpected.

No, I did not see it. And you need to get on MSN or AIM so we get to talk :p

From:

shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com

I think you've more or less convinced me. I'll come back later to post more thoughts though.... and either upload the comic or find a link to it.

In the meantime, the best way to find me is on Atlantica... :P

From:

shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com

Before I forget: http://www.fe-online.co.uk/media/100/mangas/

From:

korsriddare.livejournal.com

Yes, a new believer!

From:

sain.livejournal.com

I still find this incredibly fascinating. :D It certainly bring more interest regarding character relations in FE8, that's for sure. (I think it suffered non-attention coming as the first game I played and getting subsequently bowled over by my love of FE7 xD ) I must admit, though, the first time I played I thought Seth just looked so much older than Eirika, but that can probably be explained away if given thought. :P (Older then him, I thought was Saleh. I was a little creeped out when I first read he had a 'romantic' ending with Eirika. Makes me kind of curious as to his more precise age too. P:

From:

korsriddare.livejournal.com

Her ending with Saleh creeps me out a little too, haha.

From:

samuraiter.livejournal.com

If Seth is indeed younger than them, the question then becomes how young? And what is his age?

However old you, the 'ficcer, wish him to be. ;-) I've always ignored the canon artbooks that give the character ages in favor of a more realistic approach.

But this is a good article if you're looking for a canon way to play the Seth angle. I think you've done your research well. *nods*